As heresy fanciers will remember, Donatism was a North African heresy that denied that sacraments administered by serious sinful priests were valid.
Some bishops were accused of handing over (tradere) the Scriptures to pagan authorities during the last great persecution. These bishops were called traditores, handers-over, or traitors.
The Donatists set up their own hierarchy and rebaptized any Catholic who joined them. For Augustine schism was a very serious sin, and the Donatist denial of the validity of baptism unless it was performed by a Donatist was heresy. Augustine spent much energy arguing with them, and finally relied upon Imperial laws to force them back into the Catholic Church.
He wrote Letter 208 to Felicia, a Donatist consecrated virgin who had become a Catholic, perhaps by Imperial force. She was scandalized by corrupt members of the Catholic hierarchy.
Augustine wrote to her:
In order, therefore, that we may remain in unity and not abandon the threshing floor of the Lord when we are offended by the scandals from the chaff but may rather remain as grain until the end of the winnowing and endure the straw that is crushed by the strong weight of love, our shepherd himself of warns us about good shepherds in the gospel. He warns us that we should not place out hope even in them because of their good works but that we should glorify our Father who is in heaven, the one who made them such, and he warns us about bad shepherds, whom he chose to indicate by the terms “scribes” and “Pharisees,” those who teach what is right but do what is wrong.
In commenting on the party spirit among the Corinthians (I belong to Peter! I belong to Paul!), Augustine wrote:
From this we understand that good shepherds do not seek their own interests but those of Jesus Christ and, that though good sheep imitate the actions of their good shepherds, they nonetheless do not put their hope in those by whose ministry they were gathered into the flock but rather in the Lord by whose blood they were redeemed. In that way, when they happen to come upon bad shepherds preaching Christ’s doctrine but doing their own evil deeds, they do what bad shepherds say, but they do not do what they do.
Legionaries have appealed to Augustine’s critique of Donatism to justify remaining in the Legion. The situations however are not exactly parallel. Leaving the Legion is not the same as abandoning the unity of the church; if Legionaries think that, they have a serious problem. Much of what Maciel taught is standard if somewhat old-fashioned Catholicism; if the Legionaries what to follow that, there is no problem. But Maciel insisted over and over again that the Legionaries imitate him: a hypocrite, thief, and child molester.
The cult of personality that has afflicted the Church, to which John Paul II contributed, is the source of the problem. I am for John Paul, I am for Maciel, I am for Küng! Catholics do not seem content with Jesus Christ as the model to be imitated but too often look for messiahs closer at hand.
exLC
What is the source of the LC comparison? The LC’s believe for the most part “standard” Catholicism, but with several twists. The ends-justify-the-means is one.
Gloria
You let go of the bad shepherds and hang on to the Lord Jesus Christ and His principals. The only way to do this is to leave the bad shepherds to their own means , whatever that is[The RCC] If they continue to reap their evil by the monies given to [the RCC] of the Faithful to Christ, then the Faithful are contributing to the evil done by the shepherds , unless they LEAVE. You still have the Lord Jesus Christ and no person can take that away from you!
Maggie
How difficult this is. I have relatives in the
LC/RC. I have tried to warn them through the
years and defend the human dignity of so many
victims. I wondered why Cardinal Ratzinger as
prefect of the CDF could let this go on for all
26 years at that post. Marcel had been before
the Congregation repeatedly right from the beginning (kicked out of two seminaries), (complaints of egregious behavior at his first
boys house),(drug abuse), (sexual abuse of his
seminairians). I just didn’t get it. And I still don’t understand.
What I do know is that I was accused of calumny
and villified. I thought and still believe that I am
simply calling us to justice which is merciful. It is difficult. I too fall short.
Albino Luciani
“exLC”:
Does “standard Catholicism” include serial pedophile racketeering, perpetrating and enabling, daily vetted & verified in reporting at http://www.bishop-accountability.org/abusetracker?
How about the LC founder’s financial embezzlements, serial pedophile perpetrating, hetero sexual affairs and illegitimate out of wedlock child(ren)?!
The order was founded on FRAUD & FENIOUS premise!
Marciel’s MASSIVE money laundering for drug cartels, and Carlos Slim Helu, as well as other shady groups, via the Congregation Of Works (aka Vatican Bank) is why John Paul II looked the other way, and why John Paul II, in part, should NOT be canonized!
EX, or Not, the Legionairres Of Christ and Regnum Christi are a PRIME example of a pedo cult order, that must be disbanded, immediately, if not sooner!
The LC’s are criminal to the core.
Watch the 2007 Cannes Film Fstival Winner ‘VOWS OF SILENCE’.
THE SOLUTION on the global pedo cult protection and practives across the board in the religious orders and insitutional Church (that allow men like Marciel, Law & Mahony)?!
“STOP DONATING LAITY!” as St. Peter Damien correctly asserted.
The USCCB (Unremoved Sexual Criminal Cabal Bishops) & Roman “La Cosa Nostra” Curia maintain their credo & motto = ISAIAH 28:15!
No Guilty Curia Removal Or Punishment? No Laity Monies! It’s THAT Simple!
Rome pretends to GET little, but moves when revenue dries up.
FIAT LUX & VERITAS!
Albino Luciani,
MURDERED POPE,
Not Smiling, From Heaven
Thomas Michael Barnes
Wow! The theology here is too deep for me but I have say that Dorothy Day is my favorite American Catholic and she had an illegitmate child, was roundly hated by the American bishops, suffered persecution by them until the day of her death and lived most of her life in a soup kitchen that she ran in New York City.
She cofounded the Catholic Workers Movement which today is more or less dead or at least not in the Catholic fold but then it had great influence on the Berrigan brothers, Thomas Merton and many of the Americans who participated in Vatican II. In my view, she is a saint and Catholic to her core. Was she perfect? The bishops sure did not think so? Did she care what the bishops or anyone else thought of her? No. No. And more no.
Saints serve Christ. All the time, without regard to their own sacrifices. She did. Now, up against her, how does Maciel measure up? Well, poorly. I think the L of C is a 19th Century relic that is better off quietly leaving the scene, but many fine people disagree with me. Whatever happens, the Holy Spirit will eventually swing things His way. If the priests of the L of C are Ignations, then essentially, they need to be accepted and move into the Jesuits. If Regnum Christi is a movement of consecrate men and women, they need to take habits and cassocks and serve in some religious capacity under the Jesuits. Or, their needs to be developed a Third Order Regular for Ignations.
Personally I think the days of Religious Orders are way behind us but if that is what certain groups of Catholics need, let them have it. As for me, I look to Dorothy Day. She was a wonderful Catholic, flaws and blemishes everywhere. But she loved Christ.
And in the end, that is all that matters.
Gloria
“As for me .. and my household, we will serve the Lord.” Not Dorothy Day or anyone else. Amen?
Thomas Michael Barnes
Gloria:
That was my entire point. Amen?
Thomas Michael Barnes
Gloria:
That was my entire point. You don’t agree?
Molly Roach
Dorothy Day and Marciel cannot be compared in this careless way. Having a child out of wedlock is not the same as raping and molesting minors and enlisting and manipulating others to cover for you and pass yourself off as a holy person. Sinfulness is one thing—none of us are exempt from it. Criminal behavior is another thing entirely!
Albino Luciani
Read David Yallop’s brilliantly well written, as well as meticulously researched books, that are 100% FACTUAL, on my murder, ‘IN GOD’S NAME’, and Yallop’s follow-up treatise on John Paul II, ‘THE POWER & THE GLORY’.
As for Marciel & The Legion?… true instruments of THE DEVIL.
Ciao e tutti!
Albino Luciani,
MURDERED POPE,
Not Smiling, From Heaven