Is homosexuality itself a psychological disorder? Freud though that homosexuality was a form of narcissism (definitely a disorder), of falling in love with an image of oneself, rather than the opposite sex.
Certainly many homosexuals are narcissists, as are many heterosexuals.
Narcissism is the root of endless evils in the clergy, and I have long thought that having the priest face the people during mass concentrates attention on the priest and feeds narcissism.
Many people, as Father Michael points out, equate homosexuality and effeminacy. This is not true. As an investigator I encountered many non-effeminate homosexuals. One case I had led me to a gay biker bar (that was scary). In another case the gay was a star rugby player. And in another case someone insisted an entire college football team engaged in homosexual orgies (I had some doubts about that).
Many of the abuser of teenage boys were fairly macho, otherwise boys would have shied away from them. This was a good cover. No one could imagine that former military engineer, tall, cowboy- booted Ed Donelan was having sex with his wards at the Casa de los Muchachos.
Leon, facing the people during Mass very definitely feeds and encourages narcissism. In the old rite, the individual personality of the celebrant was obliterated and swallowed up by the rubrics and vestments. He was not the one that mattered, rather the emphasis was on the one in whose person the priest acted.
We should have stuck with the rite of 1965. It was much like the traditional Mass but allowed for large portions to be in the venacular. In it, the priest always faced the altar. The last 40 or so years have been a long sojourn in a liturgical and catechetical wasteland.
I believe some time ago The Wanderer had an article about how the modern Catholic liturgical movement in Canada was dominated by homosexual pederasts.
Mass facing the people goes back at least to the 1920s/30s and was being pushed by priests in the liturgical movement…for example, Martin Hellriegel and Gerald Ellard.
Considering how prominent St. John’s Abbey was in both the liturgical movement and rampant sexual abuse, I wonder how extensive the connection between the two is.
Mitt Romney and the homosexual agenda.
Chet, I hit the live link on your name and went to your site. There is an interesting story there about Mormon schools and sex abuse. Why has that not been in the news?
The church (or maybe it was just the American bishops) made a statement several years ago that a homosexual inclination is not sinful.
My reaction was, “well, what did you expect them to say.”
If the clergy is half as over-run with homosexuals as we frequently hear, why should we trust anything the bishops say on the subject? Do they have the moral standing to make such a statement?
I think not.
As to whether homosexuality is a psychological disorder, it’s hard for me to imagine how it could not be. Whether you take a secular or a religious approach, sexuality is clearly ordered towards procreation. How could homosexuality be anything but a disorder?
Look at what happened to Fr. Rodriguez in El Paso in response to his comments on homosexuality. There could be more to that story but a vast number of bishops and priests want to hide the disastrous effects of homosexuality in the Church. Homosexuals are doing to society at large what they’ve already done to the Church.
@TheAltonRoute, I googled it and read a couple stories. Very interesting.
It would be nice to believe that the bishops were only concerned with IRS tax requirements re: the political involvement of churches. Somehow I don’t think that’s the whole story.
Well, there appear to be issues with how Fr. Rodriguez handled money at his parish. Someone familiar with that diocese told me that the diocese has a very strong “lavender mafia” and is out to destroy Fr. Rodriguez. Did Rodriguez really mishandle money? I don’t know. Anything is possible, I guess. Leon Podles’ book Sacrilege left me the impression that Bishop Metzger was fostering a mafia of sorts in El Paso as far back as the 1950s. The problems just never end.
Has anyone ever done research into how much or if at all the priest’s facing the people distracts the people from the Mass itself and makes them focus on the priest himself? I have heard this claim often enough but I have never read that those who make the claim have actually interviewed a proper statistical sample.
There could be more to the situation surrounding Fr. Rodriguez, and I think it’s related to the current controversy surrounding the bishops and Pres. Obama.
Three members of the El Paso City Council are being recalled for voting to reverse the city’s decision to suspend insurance benefits for same-sex partners; a Protestant pastor is leading the recall. Rodriguez purchased ad space in the El Paso Times decrying homosexuality.
I think the bishop opposes Rodriguez because the bishop doesn’t want his relationship with the powers-that-be to be damaged. Anybody, even a priest, who challenges that relationship is to be disregarded, ignored, exiled, or somehow put out of the way.
Sadly, the bishops in the developed world see themselves more as power brokers than as successors of the apostles. That’s why they can take stands on issues like universal health coverage, and try to broker deals with politicians like Obama. And the bishops are surprised they got burned?
The Catholic Church is governed by fools and homosexuals. What greater judgement can a holy, righteous God dispense?
When closeted gay folks are leading the bandwagon against gays, well, it is time for some serious comedy.
From the way it looks, the only folks allowed to have same sex are the roman collared who are always making noise about the disordered gay population.
If being homosexual is such a disordered condition ( closeted sexuality is always disordered) why is it that Our Lord Jesus didn’t mention it?
Just wondering.
Aw
Om 1989, I drew a cartoon with a caricatured bishop, finger in the air, captioned:
“‘According to Catholic Doctrine, homosexual activity and pedophilia are reserved to the clergy.’ – Archbishop Turner Blindeye”
When closeted gay folks are leading the bandwagon against gays, well, it is time for some serious comedy.
Augusta, are you referring to Fr. Rodriguez in my last post. If so, what evidence do you have?
No, Joseph, I was not referring to Fr. Rodriguez, just folks in general. It has always seemed to me that the men who fiercely oppose gay rights have another agenda going on and it usually involves their own sexual discomfort of one form or another. Entirely too much time spent thinking about other people’s private moments is not good for a soul.
And yes, watching the at once blatant, closeted clergy, especially those in the hierarchy, speak to ANY issue at all is getting to my funny bone, but when they speak against gay rights, well, I have to remind myself I am not watching Saturday Night Live.
AW
I would not describe the people who run the Church as anti-homosexual. In fact they’re very pro-homosexual. Look at Fr. John McNeil, SJ. You might even say these clerical pederasts have subverted the Church to a great extent in their push to legitimize sodomy.
Has anyone here read The Homosexual Network by Fr. Enrique Rueda?
What are “gay rights”? There are human rights and civil rights. What is it that the Church opposes, if she supports human rights and civil rights for homosexuals? Civil rights do not mean marriage rights. Once we start equating civil procedure with natural law, we are in a big mess.
Of course civil rights include marriage rites. Civil law is discriminatory when it makes illegal the right of a person to marry another adult person of their choosing.
The Church does not have to marry anyone it deeems unsuitable. But church law, with its own interpretation of “natural law,” is not above civil law.
Folks are way too concerned with the marital bed. Marriage is a union of souls as well as bodies.
“Let me not to the marriage of true minds admit impediments. ”
It is wise to look skeptically upon those who are so appalled at two persons of the same sex wanting to commit to a lifetime of married love. And ecclesiastical men, claiming to be celibate if not virginal, are the last folks on earth to be waxing on about the “disordered state” of same sex love, when it appears that the majority of them subscribe to it.
AW