Mary raises a very difficult question. What if a man enters the priesthood for evil motives, whether to gain money or have access to boys. Is his ordination valid? Is it possible for the recipient of ordination to have such inadequate or wrong motives that his ordination is invalid?
In diocesan files I came across a brief discussion by Dallas church officials as to whether they should seek to have the abuser Rudy Kos’s ordination annulled. They did not explain the grounds.
I can only guess they thought his motivation for ordination was not simple inadequate but evil, and that rendered his ordination invalid. I also guess they decided not to pursue the annulment because it would create a crisis of conscience among Catholics who had received the Eucharist or the sacrament of penance from him. Perhaps the lien of reasoning was the bishop intended to ordain a man who had presented himself as a devout Christian; but Kod was not, he was a pederast and perhaps not even a believer.
There are also sheer imposters who pretend to be priests, but I don’t think God punisher those who think they are receiving the sacraments from such imposters.
For example, the Council of Trent, I believe, taught that a spiritual communion is fully as efficacious as a sacramental communion. Protestants who communicate at their services may not receive Jesus in the elements, but their communion with Him can be as fully sanctifying as a Catholic’s. Those who receive the sacraments from imposters, I suggest, receive grace of the sacrament but not through the sacrament, which does not exist in that case.
God is not out to trick us; he desires that we be saved.
But bishops who knowingly or carelessly ordain such evil men will have much to answer for at the Judgment – although the way some bishops act, I doubt whether they believe in the Judgment or even God. It would not be the first time the Church had deistic or agnostic bishops.
TY , Mary Ann,
Wondering why in this Legion owned “Zenit” article they do not bring up the fact that mothers who unknowingly take birth control pills in their first trimester risk the chance of an intersex baby. We saw this in Clinical Practice more than once. The Legion does run the School of Bioethics in Rome which pressed for positive acceptance of GMOs in the past.
To do so would be to take more of a stand against the big Pharma companies who originally pushed these the very same hormones on menopausal women to prevent the same pathologies they now know they cause!
I have to avoid reading ‘catholic’ news now because I feel like it will bring me to an early grave.
http://www.zenit.org/article-34748?l=english
Janice A friend told me she understood the Orthodox to be proposed for canonization by the parish and then Bishop of said parish who, being close to the source makes his recommendation after researching the individual.
Yesterday, a miracle for Mother’s Day
The Icon, Mother of Tender Love, began to ooze mhyrr in three places after my friend kissed it before the Divine Liturgy yesterday . Fr examined it during what would have been the Homily and announced the ancient Akathist to Our Lady would be sung immediatly after Liturgy and every night at 7PM this week.
The Orthodox do not make big announcements or sensaltionalize these events but for your contemplation I have decided to pass this along If you are interested please note the ancient Christian titles in Akathist below and the link to an explanation from a Catholic site on icons. Note also, the reference to Pope John the Twenty Third in the catholic link.It seems to me given our experience with the original promulgation of the Novus Ordo in Latin and the current versions in our catholic parishes here, that something has gone awry Because, as I stated above ,the original promulgation was almost identicle to the Divine Liturgy of St John Crysostom. God Bless everyone who reads this in their search for the Truth which is, was and always will be Jesus Christ.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/HISTICON.htm
The Akathist
http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/akafmog.htm
“Rejoice, Gatherer of the faithful in the last times!”
And if Thomas Aquinas thought canonization inflallible, it still wouldn’t have been.The notion of papal infalliblility, brought to us by the infamous Pius IX, had the same welcome as the delicate Paul VI and Humane Vitae.
The phrase ” Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” was coined about the Vatican by Lord Acton precisely because of the doctrine of Papal Infallibililty.
It is becoming increasingly difficult to listen to the men of the palaces who cannot seem to tell right from wrong even when it comes to the degradation of children, and to associate words like “infalliblility” with the institutional head these men represent, is disquieting, at best.
AW
Augusta you are correct.
I just read Stravinskas’ spin that catholic home schoolers are the causing anti clericalism and laughed.
Then I opened “Women of Grace” article to read EWTN”s Jonette Bancovic’s spin on the Vatican cooporating with the Italian authorities on the exhumation of the mafia Boss Depedis from the opus dei owned basilica .
She seemingly missed the details of how Cardinal Poletti profited by giving his permission for the mafia boss’ re entombment in the first place and how long the Italian SISDI has been asking to get into that tomb !
She did not mention that the Italian mafia busting Magistrate actually stated he was given evidence that persons in the curia know what happened to the kidnapped girl or that he had researched all the way back to the Lateran Treaty to find that a ” sliver”portion of the opus owned Basilica possibly where the body was buried actually belonged to Rome and not Vatican State. It is a very enlightening battle that has been going on decades . Research the Italian articles with google translate tool. The politics and propaganda are amazing to see first hand.
In university during the 70’s I read a lot from the Soviet press in translation. Much of Catholic “news” strikes me as similar in tone, style, lack of depth and critical analysis. It seems many Catholic journalists wouldn’t say s..t if their mouths and noses are full of it.
Is there anything proclaimed as ‘ex cathedra” that is not already a belief based on the Scripture and Tradition of the Church?
Since the Bible is already established in the Church as infallible and Tradition is a commonly held as a belief within the Church, I can understand why other denominations view the declaration of the infallibility reserved for the Pope as a dangerous precident. An honest historical evaluation of the Papacy reveals the risk of such power.
Mary, Blessed Cardinal Newman said “A doctrine is not believed because it is defined [whether by the Pope or an Eucumenical Council], it is defined because it is already believed.” The parameters within which the Pope is “infallible” are quite narrow – the doctrine he proclaims must be contained in the deposit of faith (Scripture and Tradition), at least implicitly. This is the same infallibility enjoyed by the Pope and Bishops together ( gathered in an Ecumenical Council or morally united) and by the People of God as a whole.. Sometimes beliefs contained in the deposit have had to be clarified or brought more to light. Christ just guarantees that when this need arises, the Church will be preserved from error.
The Church is holy in her founder, her essential teachings, her sacraments and in her saints. Neither the holiness of her pastors nor of their leadership is guaranteed.
Intellectually I know these things and thus expect little in the way of holiness or competence from the hierarchy. On the emotional level however I find the whole thing dissapointing, and even infuriating.
Fr that is why I have followed the advice of St Vincent of Leriens in his “Commotorium” and adhere to the very basic Beliefs put forth by the First Three Councils.
The original Creed engraved on the doors of St Peter’s by Charlemagne include the ‘Filioque’ in it’s ancent form prior to the Council of Toledo wherein the Western Church politically and purposefully left out the Bishops of the East. The Roman Catholics who dare to call the eatern Orthodox schismatics had better start studying their historical facts.
It seems many Catholic journalists wouldn’t say s..t if their mouths and noses are full of it.
Apparently, Fr. Michael, you have also been reading the likes of Mark Shea, Jimmy Akin, Karl Keating and the rest of the apologetics/Register/EWTN crowd?
Yes I have joseph. I find the writers at New Oxford Review refreshing in their honesty, and of course our friend Leon. It’s interesting that before the Council, apologists like Hilaire Belloc were not afraid to acknowledge the Church’s frequent lack of good leadership. One thinks of Dorothy Day, Flanery O’Conner and Baroness Doherty as well. Orthodox Catholics all who didn’t feel they had to sound like Pravda. I’m personally more and more disgruntled with the post Vatican II experience. Where’s the “Spring Time”? I see incompetent and even corrupt leadership, doctrinal confusion, and people leaving in droves.